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back to article Americans give all-day school phone bans a ringing endorsement

Americans are warming to the idea that schools should be for learning rather than doomscrolling, with support for all-day smartphone bans now outweighing opposition for the first time. A new Pew Research Center survey of 9,750 US adults found that 77 percent support banning smartphones during middle and high school classes, up …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

    And why were they not comfortable before ?

    In any classroom the only important thing is what the teacher is saying or showing.

    If a student is on a cellphone, he's not paying attention and not learning the subject matter.

    So yes, ban the phones. Students hand them over on arrival and get them back when they leave. And if they're caught with a second phone (because of course some will try), it's a 3-day exclusion on the first try, with heavier penalties on the next infraction and permanent exclusion on the 3rd.

    1. VoiceOfTruth Silver badge

      Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

      This sounds very ill-considered:

      >> a 3-day exclusion on the first try, with heavier penalties on the next infraction and permanent exclusion on the 3rd.

      Some people love looking for infractions, making a big deal over what is a small thing. You wrote above about paying attention and learning, and here you are wanting to ban kids from school. Some kids do not want to go to school. You have just given them an easy way to achieve that.

      I wonder how many infractions you have accrued in your lifetime.

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

        ok , third infraction - the parents have to come and sit with them all day to ensure learning

        1. VoiceOfTruth Silver badge

          Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

          I should clarify that I agree with banning phones during school time, or at least during lessons. But creating yet another 'infraction' is just one more way to stomp on kids. No doubt it would go into records somewhere, to haunt those kids for the rest of their lives. Oh look, you had infractions.

          There is already a problem with excluding kids from schools. Suspending them, and permanently excluding them for carrying a phone three times is just stupid.

    2. retiredFool Silver badge

      Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

      I'd go for hit em where it hurts. Confiscate the phone. Detention after school for an hour for 3 days without a phone. Nothing. Let them sit and stare out the window or read a textbook.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

        But freedoms

        If you take away children's phones they will be taking away the little ones guns next

      2. Ian Johnston Silver badge

        Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

        I spend rather less time than you seem to fantasizing about hurting children.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

        As an American former-student who was in school right when the smartphone became widespread, this is exactly what my high school did whenever it got too egregious. The actual 'confiscation policy' depended on the specific class you were in at the time, but usually it was "get it back and the end of class" for the first one, second was it being sent down to the office to collect at the end of the day, and third+ being "your parents must come and collect it." This worked perfectly fine, because admin *actually had the teachers' backs* on this issue, and would stand behind whatever classroom policy they used rather than folding like origami the instant the parents pushed back because they were afraid of a baseless lawsuit.

    3. Ian Johnston Silver badge

      Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

      In any classroom the only important thing is what the teacher is saying or showing.

      This just in. A lot of individual help, independent work and group discussion goes on in classrooms. Listening to the teacher accounts for only a relatively small amount of time.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

        >In any classroom the only important thing is what the teacher is saying or showing.

        The important thing for me was to be left alone to read the book.

        The difficult part was learning to keep quiet when the teacher was obviously wrong - somehow I never managed that

    4. DrSunshine0104

      Re: "Older Americans, meanwhile, appear increasingly comfortable [with the ban]"

      Well for this Millennial American, no phone in the classroom was always a policy and would be confiscated for at least the entire school day. Sometimes, until the parent came and retrieved the phone if the student had been reprimanded several times. I guess I didn't realize there was a cultural shift to just accepting phones being used during class in the first place, but I don't have children to know these things...

  2. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    The Logistics!

    whether students should get them back between lessons or keep them tucked away until the final bell.

    So the idea is to take them off students during the day? rather than not bring them? where they gonna store them all day? how much time and admin is that ?

    some sort of cloak room esque ticket system?

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: The Logistics!

      Generally, I believe,the schools have numbered lockers and/or Faraday pouches in which to store the phones during the day.

      Perhaps some kids will realize it's not worth the hassle, and just stop bringing their phones to school at all.

      Of course, it's easy for me to opine; I am a child of the 80s, those dim and barbaric pre-smartphone years, and there were literally millions of children in my town being kidnapped every single day; there'd be a veritable queue of busses outside the school with cardboard over their windows and "FREE PUPPIES" scrawled on the sides, and those poor children, unable to contact their parents by convenient phone, would be whisked off to their doom - they couldn't even make a hashtag TikTok video about their experience.

      Gratuitous sarcasm aside, though, I think a smartphone ban is a good thing on balance. They're a distraction from learning. I still remember having a blackboard eraser thrown with incredible accuracy at my head for the sin of furtively trying to read 101 Dalmatians under my desk lid.

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        Re: The Logistics!

        They still dont need a phone to avoid those commonplace hazards though as these days they are transported to and from school in an armoured personnel carrier.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The Logistics!

        Where I live in UK kids travel to school on public transport and for most of them their tickets are on an app on their phone so they need the phone to get to and from school.

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: The Logistics!

      Where I live, as I understand it in elementary school, since kids don't have lockers but stay in the same classroom all day, they place them in a provided envelope with their name on it and the teacher puts them all in a box or desk drawer or something. In middle/high school kids already have their own locker for coat/books/etc. so they handle storing their phone themselves.

      I think most kids would still bring their phone to school because they'll be going through withdrawals by the final bell. Some may need to be able to contact their parents about a ride home, or to let them know they have to stay in after school detention because they got caught with their phone on them when it was supposed to be put away.

  3. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

    The downside

    Kids will just leave campus when they need a phone fix. We already have high schools where they show up for first period attendance (the one that messages parents if it's missed) and start jumping in cars or the public transit busses for who knows where at around 10:00 AM.

    The concept of truancy appears to have been forgotten. And it's not all Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Nothing good happens at the off campus hangouts.

    1. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: The downside

      If kids were already leaving school and nothing was getting done about it the phone isn't the problem / won't be making the already existing problem any worse.

      IMHO in schools like that the kids aren't the real problem, the parents are - either they are uninvolved parents who ignore their kids (have their own problems like working three jobs or drug addiction or whatever) or they are overinvolved parents who refuse to believe their kid ever does anything wrong / downplays it and will raise hell if any punishment is attempted against their special snowflake.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The downside

        I gave you an upvote for most of your points, but may I counterpoint this:

        "uninvolved parents who ignore their kids (have their own problems like working three jobs...)"

        Nope. A parent willing to work three jobs is more likely just trying to meet the needs of their family, often sacrificing their own needs for the sake of their kids, including sleep.

        Anon so I can get more personal: full-time job (steady career for 20+ years, including benefits) plus low-pay/low-effort side gig (almost 6 years) plus part-time night shifts restocking a nearby store (3+ years, and before that about a half-year loading delivery vans for Big Logistics Company, which sucked worse). Spouse works her own part-time job. We sacrifice sleep to pay the bills and still give our kids as much time and attention as we can, including a life full of reading, very little TV or iPad time, and proper respect for the rules (which only applies to the one who had a phone, the eldest). Thanks to our hard work, our circumstances are slowly changing, and soon I can drop the worst of the above jobs, but do not call me "uninvolved" or claim that I ignore my kids -- far from it.

        (In my experience, it is the one-job workaholics -- trying to climb a corporate ladder -- who will most often ignore their kids and raise them on screens.)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The downside

      From what I've seen, many schools here in UK have the kids place their phones in lockers on arrival in the morning. The lockers are then off limits unless supervised by an adult until they leave after school when they can collect their phones. This might help prevent truancy if a kid can't get access to their phone to take it off the school site with them during the school day.

  4. xyz123 Silver badge

    Simple solution. BLOCK all cellphone tower signals.

    Offer school wifi but block facebook, instagram etc.

    Only educational websites whitelisted.

    1. DS999 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      So you want to install a Faraday cage around an entire school (including outbuildings) sealing all openings and covering all windows with a grounded wire mesh. Yeah that sounds WAY more reasonable and affordable than making a rule and enforcing it with after school detention!

      1. that one in the corner Silver badge

        Ah, the good old OTT response.

        You know full well that while, yes, a complete Faraday cage will block every signal completely, you don't need anything close to that to reduce reception down to the point of uselessness.

        Our house isn't in a Faraday cage, but the signal we manage to get is so poor any teenager would be clawing at the door to he allowed up the hill for one bar, just one bar, that's all!

        A few grounded conductive plates, otherwise known as magnetic whiteboards, strategically placed here and there around the school rooms, in line with the cell tower. HVAC positioned carefully, a nice wire mesh net to catch stray balls from that end of the playing field, all helps to reduce the data rate until the youngsters just give up in disgust.

        Sure, there will be holes where signal can come in, but the outhouses are out of bounds anywayv(so being caught there is already a no-no) and the remainder are likely to be out in the open, where the security towers' searchlights can easily spot the miscreants. Although that last may not be applicable in this case, as I believe the US doesn't really have our notions of Public Schools. Well played, Tomkinson; and Perry Minor, report to the School Bully's rooms.

      2. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Silver badge

        "So you want to install a Faraday cage around an entire school (including outbuildings) sealing all openings and covering all windows with a grounded wire mesh."

        Given the readership here, this is exactly the kind of technically elaborate offerings I expect. This is why I come here.

      3. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

        Micro cell sites. Similar to the repeater devices, but also like a Stingray IMSI catcher with a white list of allowed contacts. Emergency numbers snd parents phones, OK. But no Telegraph or FacePlant.

    2. Ianab

      Cell phone jamming is technically illegal in most places. The issues with who else you end up jamming is too much of a headache. Sure you can jam cellphone coverage in the school, AND all the houses across the street.

  5. Tron Silver badge

    What about workplaces?

    Adults should be setting an example. A ban on personal phones during the working day would do that.

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: What about workplaces?

      In reality phones should only be allowed during holidays.

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: What about workplaces?

      Then companies would be forced to provide work phones for every employee. That raises their cost and a lot of people have zero desire to carry two phones around.

      If adults want to set an example they'd have to do it at HOME, where the kids could see it. Anyway examples are not required, they're kids, don't adults still have the power to set rules? The parents don't even have to enforce this, they can say "well it is state law or it is the school board, it is beyond my control" and fake sympathy for their terrible plight.

      This is the perfect get out of the doghouse free card for parents, many of whom might have wanted to tell their kids to stay off their phone during the schoolday but couldn't because 1) they weren't around to see/enforce it and 2) their kids would say "but so-and-so's mom doesn't make her get off her phone, whyyyyy do you hate me?"

      1. that one in the corner Silver badge

        Re: What about workplaces?

        > Then companies would be forced to provide work phones for every employee

        Whilst a small number of itinerant workers had company mobile phones, for my entire working life the majority of us were contactable via these funny black boxes with a coiled wire and a sort of bone-shape at the end, placed strategically around the office desks. Odd thing, these were pretty inexpensive and yet they lasted for decades before needing to be replaced. We never had to worry about no longer being able to upgrade the OS in them. Miraculous.

        Probably treated as one if those Lost Technologies of Atlantis nowadays.

  6. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Sense

    Make sense, when there is an active shooter on school premises, the children will not bother their parents with nuisance calls.

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Sense

      Coming from a country with a sane gun ownership policy, I've never been trained on shooter drills; but wouldn't the kids be told to listen to the teachers and not mess about on TikTok?

    2. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker

      Re: Sense

      And what's a parent going to do besides get in the way of law enforcement trying to respond to the situation, making it even more dangerous for all involved?

      Any US school needs a communication system that can alert all parents simultaneously (phone, text, email, etc.), telling them to stay OFF school property and keep the nearby streets clear until the situation resolves, then message them again with updates and instructions.

  7. Filippo Silver badge

    Okay, but are we addressing the elephant in the room any time soon? Namely, how is it possible that these things are harmful enough to kids to warrant bans, while at the same time they are totally harmless to adults? To the point where the idea is not even seriously researched? Kids and adults are the same species, you know.

    It makes sense to ban stuff from kids but not from adults; we do it for a whole bunch of things: smoking, drinking, driving, and so on. But none of those things are safe for adults, and we spent considerable resources investigating exactly how unsafe they are and making sure everyone knows it, so they can manage their own risk rationally.

    Where are the "this can cause mental illness" compulsory banners on Facebook?

    1. AndrueC Silver badge
      Meh

      Kids and adults are the same species, you know.

      But their brains are at different stages of development and work differently. To be fair I do have some concerns about the impact on adults but to suggest that adults and children should be treated the same is rather silly.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        It's like alcohol, which is a terrible life-destroying carcinogen until you reach 21, at which point it becomes the source and solution to all life's problems

      2. Filippo Silver badge

        Good thing I wasn't calling for them to be treated the same, then.

    2. doublelayer Silver badge

      They're not banning them, at least not in this particular campaign, due to mental health risks, and not completely. They're only doing it during school hours and they're doing it so that students don't ignore their classes. Adults usually are not taking classes and, if they are, it's their responsibility whether they're good students or not. Specifically in education, we take a lot more responsibility for trying to educate children whether they feel like learning or not but leave it to individual responsibility by the time they become adults. So far, I think that's likely the correct approach.

      I wouldn't be surprised that phone bans are already active but enforced by teachers. My teachers wouldn't allow students to be distracted by things they weren't supposed to have in class, and I don't have any reason to think that has changed. Teachers who didn't care probably still don't, so children can still get around enforcement if they're careful about which classes they break the rules in. But even if something already exists in practice, sometimes politicians feel that they really must do something and here's a thing that isn't likely to make any voter very angry.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I had teachers in high school that banned pagers - 30 years ago. I had a college professor who threatened to give a score of 0 on a test for anyone whose phone went off in class - 25 years ago. In-class bans on communication devices have been around a long time.

    3. that one in the corner Silver badge

      > Where are the "this can cause mental illness" compulsory banners on Facebook?

      Mostly delivered via the profile pictures and choice postings of strangers that "I might like to add as friends" that Facebook delivers randomly to my "feed": when I'm stupid enough to open that page I treat those as warning enough.

  8. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Evidence?

    The Pew report says: majorities of U.S. adults said all-day bans would improve students’ grades, social skills and class behavior

    It would be interesting to know what sort of solid research there is to support this view. Or is this just another "when I was a lad ..." reaction, that simply thinks rolling back progress to the 1950s would solve modern-day problems.

    1. retiredFool Silver badge

      Re: Evidence?

      I've a friend who was a teacher. It is obvious a ban is a good idea. He told me stories, that well, just unbelievable. His last job implemented a bell to bell ban and the kids did not mind checking phones into the locker. It worked better than prior jobs that had in class bans, which really amounted to don't use the phone in your pocket during class. Out of reach, out of mind.

    2. doublelayer Silver badge

      Re: Evidence?

      Those were questions on a poll which they said they agreed to. It was an opinion, not a fact. Actual studies attempting to check the facts have found mixed results, with positive long-term results in student mental health, short-term negative results in student discipline, and negligible effect on test scores. I'm not sure where "social skills" is or how that would be measured.

      1. Pete 2 Silver badge

        Re: Evidence?

        > questions on a poll which they said they agreed to

        True. However according to the pollsters:

        Everyone who took part in this survey is a member of the Center’s American Trends Panel

        So essentially a self-selected (not random) group of individuals. I would expect they volunteer for such questionnaires because they hold strong, polarising, views on many topics. But not necessarily views that are supported by informed opinions.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    On another matter

    I’d like to know why the El Reg comments buttons keep appearing and disappearing at random.

    Plus error messages like: “upstream request timeout”

  10. Winkypop Silver badge

    Anyone else experiencing EL Reg comments dropping out?

    Just me?

    1. AndrueC Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Anyone else experiencing EL Reg comments dropping out?

      A few stories don't have a comments section. I've always assumed that the editors didn't want us commenting on those for some reason.

      1. that one in the corner Silver badge

        Re: Anyone else experiencing EL Reg comments dropping out?

        It seems that every story now has to wait an indeterminate* amount of time before the ability to comment is enabled. Maybe to give us all time to ponder on the article and carefully prepare a reasoned riposte, ripe with rationale, redolent with, um, 'riting, instead of leaping in with both feet on the keyboard?

        * I could do the research and keep refreshing the page and log when the option first appears, feeding the results into gnuplot to find a good curve fit, but even as someone spending way too much time on El Reg I can think of better things to do. Now, if one of you lot, better equipped for web-scraping, cares to automate the task, we'll be interested in the results; as, indeed, may the El Reg staffers trying to figure out why their audience engagement figures have plummeted since the site revamp.

        1. AndrueC Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Anyone else experiencing EL Reg comments dropping out?

          Maybe to give us all time to ponder on the article and carefully prepare a reasoned riposte, ripe with rationale, redolent with, um, 'riting, instead of leaping in with both feet on the keyboard?

          Wow. Web 3.0 is here.

  11. Ianab

    NZ did this about 3 years back. Before that schools had their own policies that varied. Now it's "no phones in school hours". While our kids school had a couple of different "enforcement" ideas, it's settled back to "just turn your dang phone off". The kids can understand that, and the 1% that don't have to go to the Office after school to get their device back. Normal school discipline stuff. I'm OK with that policy. Now a couple of weeks back we had some rough weather and the daughter's school lost all power around lunch time. No chance of getting it back on as the fault crews were dealing with multiple outages. "OK, school is closed for the day, if you can message your parents for a pickup or permission to leave, you can go home". All the phones come out. Some had to wait 3 hours for the bus anyway, but as it was no longer school time, at least they had phones. But that contact is why I'm happy for the girls to at least carry a phone, even if it's off during the school day.

  12. This post has been deleted by its author

  13. Jamie Jones Silver badge

    Remember the comment from the American, replying to a news story that Scotland was banning mobile phones in schools? >>> Here <<<

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